Do you want Strikeforce to fail?

[stulecanem]

I'm torn on this one because competition is good and it's especially good for the fighters who are more likely to be exploited without competition considering that there's no collective bargaining.

At the same time, I am frustrated by multiple orgs keeping some of the best fighters in the world fighting outside of the UFC.

Thoughts?

[stulecanem]

I'm all about 1 org with some sort of collective bargaining agreement to protect the fighters.

[RyanMCGTX24]

There should be a merger like what happened with the AFL and the NFL.

The best players in the world play in the NFL, not the CFL. Use the smaller regional shows as feeder orgs to prep talent for the big leagues. Expand the UFC have more than 1 show a month, add a few more weight classes and have 1 ruling body over the sport. Enact a Fighters union similar to the NFLPA to protect fighters from getting screwed.

[stulecanem]

Yeah I tend to agree with that but it's a pipe dream

[RyanMCGTX24]

Let the UFC be the main company, have all the other orgs absorb into the UFC and throw 3-4 shows a month on.

[stulecanem]

3-4 shows a month would over saturate

[RyanMCGTX24]

WAMMA had the right idea, but no support from the UFC.

[RyanMCGTX24]

3-4 shows a month would over saturate

No it wouldn't, do 2-3 strikeforce challengers style events and 1 big even per month. I think it would give more fighters visibility and also a chance to fight more than 3 times a year.

[stulecanem]

No it wouldn't, do 2-3 strikeforce challengers style events and 1 big even per month. I think it would give more fighters visibility and also a chance to fight more than 3 times a year.

Give people that much free MMA and I don't see them buying PPV every month and give them that many PPV and 3/4 of your shows fail.

Maybe a challenger series and a PPV a month would work

[ArtardFiesta]

More organizations just means more MMA and more cards that we get for free instead of having to shell out 40-45 bucks a month for a shitty UFC card.

[Bobby Curls]

i'd reword it by saying that i'm frustrated by the premise of multiple orgs preventing some of the best fighters in the world from fighting each other. personally, i'm not entirely partial to the ufc's way of running an mma promotion: i prefer their no-nonsense approach to matchmaking, and in spite of what happened this past weekend, the officiating is leaps and bounds beyond that of japan's per se, imo. On the other hand, I prefer a more NHB style rule system, like China's Art of War FC's which always elbows, knees and kicks from all and every position.

[RyanMCGTX24]

Soccer Kicks and knees to the head of a downed opponent would not be accepted in the US.

I think matchmaking should be based on the rankings and shit.

[Bobby Curls]

yes - the rankings. don't forget the shit.

[ArtardFiesta]

UFC fanboy faggots

[shadyasfok]

where else will i get to watch nick diaz fight?

[ArtardFiesta]

where else will i get to watch nick diaz fight?
Japan

[shadyasfok]

i don't watch jap fights

[Bobby Curls]

xiao riben!!!!

[shadyasfok]

little japan?

[Bobby Curls]

yea - it's also a way to insult the japanese

[Polish Strong Man Can]

Do I want them to fail? No

Will they fail? Yes

[Bones of Satan]

i don't wnat strikeforce to fail

it is a legit org with the #1 hw and lhw in the world

competition is good for business

[stulecanem]

i don't wnat strikeforce to fail

it is a legit org with the #1 hw and lhw in the world

competition is good for business

Yeah I agree, I don['t really want them to fail, I just want one org with all fighters and collective bargaining. Seems like the only way to get close to that though is if they fail.

[shadyasfok]

i don't wnat strikeforce to fail

it is a legit org with the #1 hw and lhw in the world

competition is good for business

?????????

[Bobby Curls]

Bobby Southworth

[stulecanem]

Bobby Southworth

YESH!

[Bones of Satan]

?????????

mousssasi

[stulecanem]

mousssasi

NOSH!

[Bones of Satan]

strikeforce is also a good org for the other up and comers to follow. their the one org that did it right

[Polish Strong Man Can]

Bobby Southworth


Bobby Southworth > ALL

[shadyasfok]

mousssasi

machida>mousasi

[stulecanem]

EOS is having a roid meltdown right now

[shadyasfok]

lol, he's gonna benoit himself

[Polish Strong Man Can]

Machida "The Champion">mousasi


Hell

Brandon Vera>Mousasi at this point

[shadyasfok]

he's gonna kidnap a little asian boy and put him in the crossface, while screaming "TALK SHIT NOW"

[shadyasfok]

Hell

Brandon Vera>Mousasi at this point

i wouldn't go that far

babalu>>>>>anyone vera's beaten at lhw

[stulecanem]

very would obliterate mouscani

[Polish Strong Man Can]

i wouldn't go that far

babalu>>>>>anyone vera's beaten at lhw


Ok,

Jason Lambert>Mousasi

[stulecanem]

Slaptits lambert would gnp mouscani to death

[Polish Strong Man Can]

Slaptits lambert would gnp mouscani to death


"Hit him again Titties"

[shadyasfok]

Ok,

Jason Lambert>Mousasi

booooooooooooooo

[Polish Strong Man Can]

booooooooooooooo


I only speak the truth

[shadyasfok]

babalu never die

[Tredogg]

I'm all for Strikeforce if they can keep putting on events like the one next Sat. I know it's been said a million times, but I'd like to see the lesser fighters in the UFC get paid more and a little competition is the only way that happens.

[super hot]

Strikeforce will end up taking UFC out.

[WAR RANDLEMAN!]

I picked the wrong one

[HOODS]

if strikforce fails (which it wont), another org will pop up the next week. Its supply and demand, ufc cant house every fighter in the world so other orgs are inevitable. And Im really happy for you and imma let you finish, but Fedor is the best of all time!

[Polish Strong Man Can]

Strikeforce will end up taking UFC out.

no

[___]

I do but purely for greed

[GAYBEARCHESTHAIR]

I think we need more orgs so I have an excuse to get drunk with freinds more often

[El Duce]

I think we need more orgs so I have an excuse to get drunk with freinds more often

I like the way you think. Wanna be e-buddies?

[GAYBEARCHESTHAIR]

I like the way you think. Wanna be e-buddies?I Sure do

[El Duce]

I Sure do

:happyboo:

[Twincest]

Yeah I agree, I don['t really want them to fail, I just want one org with all fighters and collective bargaining. Seems like the only way to get close to that though is if they fail.

it's a dilemma but the UFC has too much power, and they never hesitate to abuse it.

while on the one hand it sucks that we can't see Fedro fight Brock and Gegard fight Anderson, it would suck worse if fighters like Henderson had zero leverage against Dana.

[Twincest]

and collective bargaining will happen over Dana's plump translucent dead body.

[Tsar]

3-4 shows a month would over saturate

definitely. it's too hard for strikeforce and ufc to put out consistent cards as is.

[Scorpipede]

more orgs equals more fights.

I'd like a successful ring oriented org.

[Twincest]

the one positive outcome is that if Strikeforce folds, Nick Diaz would likely end up doing a reality TV show loosely based on his ongoing quest to smoke weed and not be a bitch.

[stulecanem]

and collective bargaining will happen over Dana's plump translucent dead body.

He wouldn;t be able to stop it if they organized behind the scenes and stayed quiet.

That's the one downfall that the UFC has is that due to the size of their organization and the fact that they've gone the NBA/NFL/MLB route they are vulnerable to being unionized

Don't think for a minute that reps from various players unions aren't trying to sink their grubby paws into the UFC.

The one thing I'd say though is that the UFC still isn't big enough to handle collective bargaining. They don't yet make enough money to deal with the demands

[Twincest]

He wouldn;t be able to stop it if they organized behind the scenes and stayed quiet.

That's the one downfall that the UFC has is that due to the size of their organization and the fact that they've gone the NBA/NFL/MLB route they are vulnerable to being unionized

Don't think for a minute that reps from various players unions aren't trying to sink their grubby paws into the UFC.

The one thing I'd say though is that the UFC still isn't big enough to handle collective bargaining. They don't yet make enough money to deal with the demands

that's true. i didn't consider that organizers from outside may be getting in touch w. fighters secretly. that'd take some work though - trying to line everyone and everything up at the same time. interesting if they ever pull it off.

[AO!]

ufc fighters breach their contracts if they enter a union agreement. the chances of a all the fighters breaching at the same time = 0. its not a big enough problem for a massive strike.

[stulecanem]

that's true. i didn't consider that organizers from outside may be getting in touch w. fighters secretly. that'd take some work though - trying to line everyone and everything up at the same time. interesting if they ever pull it off.

That's pretty typical and it's how most places unionize.

When I was 15 I worked in the steakhouse at a place called Rawhide which is a big western theme park/old west town/restaurant with thousands of employees. We had union reps sneaking in handing us business cards while eating dinner etc.

[stulecanem]

ufc fighters breach their contracts if they enter a union agreement. the chances of a all the fighters breaching at the same time = 0. its not a big enough problem for a massive strike.

Trust me if let's say GSP, Anderson, Brock and BJ all signed it would be a problem

[AO!]

Trust me if let's say GSP, Anderson, Brock and BJ all signed it would be a problem

those guy all make millions and none of them seem like die hard idealists. i would take any wager that we'll never see a union environment in the ufc. not in the next 5-7 years at least.

[stulecanem]

those guy all make millions and none of them seem like die hard idealists. i would take any wager that we'll never see a union environment in the ufc. not in the next 5-7 years at least.

I agree that it's less likely for them to sign unless they are idealists. But it does not take any more than a majority for the UFC to be legally bound to recognize the union regardless of the contracts.

[stulecanem]

So if the organizers did manage to get say 51% of the fighters to sign which is not inconceivable considering how little the majority of the stable makes, then the UFC would have to allow it.

That wouldn;t mean that all fighters have to sign with the union however. Players like Michael Jordan remained independent

[stulecanem]

It's less than 51%

Taken from Wiki so take it with a grain of salt

If at least 30% of the workers in a workplace bargaining unit sign the cards, the employer may request that the National Labor Relations Board (NLRB) hold a secret ballot election to decide whether the workers want to be in a union

[stulecanem]

When I worked for Rawhide they threatened to fire us if we signed a union card.

[AO!]

slightly different. all the active fighters have already signed an agreement saying if they join a union tehy are gone.

[AO!]

plus its not even a problem. fighters get pretty decent pay.

[stulecanem]

Ironically I absolutely HATE unions in the general labor force because they drive wages up too high to be maintainable. Just look at the US Auto industry for a perfect example of how badly the union can destroy companies.

But with the entertainment industry I've always felt that there is a difference because it's not a job that just anyone can step in and do and therefore the companies are much more heavily reliant on the athletes for their product.

In the auto industry, nearly anyone can be trained to operate machinery that builds cars but you can't just find a random dude off the street who runs a 4.3 40 and can catch a pass running a flag route.

Since the entertainment industry is 100% personnel driven I've always felt that they deserved a larger piece of the pie.

[stulecanem]

slightly different. all the active fighters have already signed an agreement saying if they join a union tehy are gone.

It still doesn't matter. The UFC would not fire more than half of their figthers at once. They can't afford to lose their entire stable

[AO!]

Ironically I absolutely HATE unions in the general labor force because they drive wages up too high to be maintainable. Just look at the US Auto industry for a perfect example of how badly the union can destroy companies.

But with the entertainment industry I've always felt that there is a difference because it's not a job that just anyone can step in and do and therefore the companies are much more heavily reliant on the athletes for their product.

In the auto industry, nearly anyone can be trained to operate machinery that builds cars but you can't just find a random dude off the street who runs a 4.3 40 and can catch a pass running a flag route.

Since the entertainment industry is 100% personnel driven I've always felt that they deserved a larger piece of the pie.

i think they should leave shit alone. it aint broke.

[AO!]

It still doesn't matter. The UFC would not fire more than half of their figthers at once. They can't afford to lose their entire stable

i know im saying they'll never even be put in that position. if enough people complained seriously im sure the ufc would up the payscale. they probably will anyway.

[stulecanem]

i know im saying they'll never even be put in that position. if enough people complained seriously im sure the ufc would up the payscale. they probably will anyway.

I'm sure there were people who said the same thing about the: NFL, MLB, NBA and NHL at one point.

[AO!]

most likely. doesnt change anythign though.

[stulecanem]

I think they will unionize at some point and I think it will be good for the sport.

A fighters union = more attractive salary = more fighters wanting to participate = more figthers wanting to be in a single org = the UFC being the recognized name in MMA just like the other major brands.

I think that's a great thing and will help to keep MMA from fragmenting like boxing.

[stulecanem]

anyway, it's all speculation. I could be 100% wrong but at least I sounded half intelligent while I was doing it.

[AO!]

I think they will unionize at some point and I think it will be good for the sport.

A fighters union = more attractive salary = more fighters wanting to participate = more figthers wanting to be in a single org = the UFC being the recognized name in MMA just like the other major brands.

I think that's a great thing and will help to keep MMA from fragmenting like boxing.

i dont think thats reflective of reality though. every kid and his dog wants to fight in the UFC. the ufc is already the major brand and barring some kind of miracle that shit wont ever change.

[stulecanem]

I hope that remains true. Strikeforce is currently coming on strong

[AO!]

they will be the SS failboat soon enough.

[Polish Strong Man Can]

When I worked for Rawhide they threatened to fire us if we signed a union card.

That's illegal actually.

[stulecanem]

That's illegal actually.

Yes, this was back in 1988 though when things weren't quite as litigious as they are now

[Polish Strong Man Can]

Yes, this was back in 1988 though when things weren't quite as litigious as they are now


Awww, Coca Cola has meetings to tell us why we don't need a union. It's all bullshit and completely out of touch with how the place operates, but they pay to sit there and act like I give a shit.

[stulecanem]

Awww, Coca Cola has meetings to tell us why we don't need a union. It's all bullshit and completely out of touch with how the place operates, but they pay to sit there and act like I give a shit.

Yeah Rawhide had those same meetings. I was 15 so I didn't give a shit either way

[Twincest]

Ironically I absolutely HATE unions in the general labor force because they drive wages up too high to be maintainable. Just look at the US Auto industry for a perfect example of how badly the union can destroy companies.

But with the entertainment industry I've always felt that there is a difference because it's not a job that just anyone can step in and do and therefore the companies are much more heavily reliant on the athletes for their product.

In the auto industry, nearly anyone can be trained to operate machinery that builds cars but you can't just find a random dude off the street who runs a 4.3 40 and can catch a pass running a flag route.

Since the entertainment industry is 100% personnel driven I've always felt that they deserved a larger piece of the pie.

that's true. and the case w. the NBA, NFL, etc. it could be argued that given the incredible profits TV broadcasts make for the league(s) that the players are due their share - being "the product" in the first place.

i think the UFC may be able to sit on this for another year or two, but if they land a giant network contract, and the overall revenue for a given event shoots from the low 7 figure range to the moderate 8 figure range, then the $8K and $10K per fight contracts we're seeing will seem even more ridiculous and disproportionate.

also - it's obvious that a string of injuries and illnesses can seriously mess w. the UFC's ability to produce events. the fighters may be learning how much pull they actually have.

[stulecanem]

that's true. and the case w. the NBA, NFL, etc. it could be argued that given the incredible profits TV broadcasts make for the league(s) that the players are due their share - being "the product" in the first place.

i think the UFC may be able to sit on this for another year or two, but if they land a giant network contract, and the overall revenue for a given event shoots from the low 6 figure range to the moderate 7 figure range, then the $8K and $10K per fight contracts we're seeing will seem even more ridiculous and disproportionate.

also - it's obvious that a string of injuries and illnesses can seriously mess w. the UFC's ability to produce events. the fighters may be learning how much pull they actually have.

Great point about injury, I think you're spot on there.

I also agree about a network deal. The UFC isn't quite ready for a labor contract yet but if they do get that big deal and solidify to that point they might be

[AO!]

they'll just change the 8-10k to 12-15k and any arguement would dissapear.