I hate the newest generation of writers.

[California Giant]

What the fuck is up with there always needing to be one or two contrarians in this day and age?

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/kerry_byrne/08/06/halloffame/index.html?eref=sihp?xid=Fanhouse


Jerry Rice isn't the greatest ever? Literally the most ignorant statement ive ever heard. That's worse than saying the world is flat. Its like that one nig film critic from the NY press. Arm and hammer or some shit. Because you generate controversy does not make you special. it makes you a douche bag. Same thing to all you "ironic" indie faggots. Because its popular opinion doesn't mean its selling out, it probably means its right.

Jerry Rice is the greatest wide reciever ever in the same aspect ricky henderson is the greatest base stealer/leadoff hitter ever or Nolan Ryan is the greatest pitcher ever. Their numbers will never be touched.

[Tupac Shakira]

Jerry Rice is not only the greatest football player of all time but the most dominant athlete of all time. Look at his records and who is in second and compare that to Michael Jordan, Wayne Gretzky, Nolan Ryan, Tiger Woods, and their records.

[SuperNatural]

Fuck that guy, Jerry Rice is easily the greatest of all time

[super hot]

jerry rice is the greatest wide receiver of all time, but not the best football player of all time. And how is Nolan Ryan the best pitcher? His career was really long but he wasn't as dominate as some of the other great pitchers.

[California Giant]

7 no hitters, most career strikeouts by a long shot, and fewest hits allowed per 9 innings

[Bacon of Hope]

Nolan Ryan was the greatest pitcher ever to play baseball.

[SuperNatural]

Nolan Ryan was the greatest pitcher ever to play baseball.

debatable

[SuperNatural]

Greg Maddux, Roger Clemens and Randy Johnson are all better than Nolan

[SuperNatural]

Pedro Martinez is better

[Bacon of Hope]

Roger Clemens is a faget

[SuperNatural]

I agree but he was still a better pitcher

[Bacon of Hope]

Clemens won't get into the Hall of Fame sadly

[SuperNatural]

I have a feeling that all of the roiders who have the numbers to get in will

[super hot]

Maddux > Ryan
Koufax > Ryan
Randy Johnson > Ryan

[super hot]

7 no hitters, most career strikeouts by a long shot, and fewest hits allowed per 9 innings

he also pitched for 20 years. he has 292 losses as well.

[AMERICAN BONES]

you really cant argue cy young being the best pitcher of all time, he averaged 20 wins per year over a 22 year career

[SuperNatural]

Walter Johnson

[AMERICAN BONES]

BTW, a few numbers i just went through, this are averages per season, for jerry rice i removed his stats and didnt count his 1997 season where he only played in 2 games, so this is through 12 season for moss, and 20 season for rice because i didnt count 1997, make of them what you will

RANDY MOSS AVERAGE SEASON
77 Receptions
1205 Yards
15.6 Yards Per Catch
12.3 Touchdowns

JERRY RICE AVERAGE SEASON
77 Receptions
1140 Yards
14.8 Yards Per Catch
9.8 Touchdowns

[Bacon of Hope]

Best closer of all time is Mariano Rivera.

There were alot of great pitchers but the impact Nolan Ryan made on the sport paved the way for gun slingers like Randy Johnson and Roger Clemens.

[Bacon of Hope]

BTW, a few numbers i just went through, this are averages per season, for jerry rice i removed his stats and didnt count his 1997 season where he only played in 2 games, so this is through 12 season for moss, and 20 season for rice because i didnt count 1997, make of them what you will

RANDY MOSS AVERAGE SEASON
77 Receptions
1205 Yards
15.6 Yards Per Catch
12.3 Touchdowns

JERRY RICE AVERAGE SEASON
77 Receptions
1140 Yards
14.8 Yards Per Catch
9.8 Touchdowns

I'm with you on that, I think Randy Moss is better than Jerry Rice.

[AMERICAN BONES]

Best closer of all time is Mariano Rivera.

There were alot of great pitchers but the impact Nolan Ryan made on the sport paved the way for gun slingers like Randy Johnson and Roger Clemens.

please explain this to me, like nolan ryan was the first fireballer? or the first guy that was a mean sumbitch on the mound? or guys like the unit and clemens would have never been given a shot is it werent for nolans success?

[Bacon of Hope]

please explain this to me, like nolan ryan was the first fireballer? or the first guy that was a mean sumbitch on the mound? or guys like the unit and clemens would have never been given a shot is it werent for nolans success?

No he wasn't but for my generation he was the best.

[AMERICAN BONES]

I'm with you on that, I think Randy Moss is better than Jerry Rice.

you just gotta ask yourself, if you were a QB with 5 seconds left on the clock in the super bowl on the defenses 20 yard line, who would you rather be throwin the ball to?

[Bacon of Hope]

you just gotta ask yourself, if you were a QB with 5 seconds left on the clock in the super bowl on the defenses 20 yard line, who would you rather be throwin the ball to?

Randy Moss all day

[AMERICAN BONES]

No he wasn't but for my generation he was the best.

he was before our generation i think, but he was awesome, i love that fucking guy, his beating of ventura was epic

[AMERICAN BONES]

Randy Moss all day

thats what i think

[flashNsmash]

Jerry Rice is not only the greatest football player of all time but the most dominant athlete of all time. Look at his records and who is in second and compare that to Michael Jordan, Wayne Gretzky, Nolan Ryan, Tiger Woods, and their records.

Nobody will ever touch Wayne, bud.

[Bacon of Hope]

Jerry Rice tarnished his legacy by not getting out of the sport when he should've just like Tiki Barber tarnished his by getting out before he should....same with Barry Sanders.

[flashNsmash]

david cone is the best pitcher of all time btw, thought y'all knew

[SuperNatural]

Greg Maddux is easily better than Nolan, Ryan

[Bacon of Hope]

Maddux is a can

[Tupac Shakira]

you just gotta ask yourself, if you were a QB with 5 seconds left on the clock in the super bowl on the defenses 20 yard line, who would you rather be throwin the ball to?

Randy Moss all day

I would throw it to the guy that has played in 5 super bowls won 4 of them, and holds the record for most touchdowns in a super bowl, Jerry Rice.

[Tupac Shakira]

And the only reason I wrote Nolan Ryan is because I thought that is who people consider the best I don't give two shits.

[AMERICAN BONES]

I would throw it to the guy that has played in 5 super bowls won 4 of them, and holds the record for most touchdowns in a super bowl, Jerry Rice.

Another irrelevant argument I hate. Would you rather have Luc Longley or Patrick Ewing?

[Tupac Shakira]

Yeah someone who has been proven to be clutch in the super bowl over and over again is irrelevant when asked who you would want to throw it to. Your analogy is weak.

[super hot]

nolan ryan = no rings

[Black Dennis Nedry]

Nobody will ever touch Wayne, bud.

QFT I almost made a comment about it, but thought it'd pointless. Wayne's stats compared to #2, the disparity in numbers would make most good forwards proud to have over their entire career

[American Born Jr]

1) ryan doesnt know anything about baseball
2) AB is fucking destroying mns and ryan


thats all for now

[AMERICAN BONES]

Yeah someone who has been proven to be clutch in the super bowl over and over again is irrelevant when asked who you would want to throw it to. Your analogy is weak.

there is no such thing as clutch, there are people that fold under pressure and people that dont, the idea that someone is "clutch" and performs at a higher level than they are normally capable of is wrong, especially in football where its a game of instinct and reaction, the only position that has time to think about what they are doing to the point of the pressure MAYBE effecting their performance is a FG kicker, and even for them statistics prove there is no such thing as being "clutch"

[HendoStu]

Nobody will ever touch Wayne, bud.

QFT I almost made a comment about it, but thought it'd pointless. Wayne's stats compared to #2, the disparity in numbers would make most good forwards proud to have over their entire career

reps, you could take away every goal he's ever scored and he'd still be the number 1 point getter of all time by a decent margin. Then he went ahead and scored the most goals of all time as well, so fucking awesome.

[whitey]

you just gotta ask yourself, if you were a QB with 5 seconds left on the clock in the super bowl on the defenses 20 yard line, who would you rather be throwin the ball to?

Manut Bol all day.

[gumby]

you just gotta ask yourself, if you were a QB with 5 seconds left on the clock in the super bowl on the defenses 20 yard line, who would you rather be throwin the ball to?

Rice

[AMERICAN BONES]

Rice

thats fine, and a perfectly acceptable answer IMO, i just think its dumb to say "omg rice is the best hands down no one else comes close!"

[AMERICAN BONES]

Manut Bol all day.

the obvious answer is gheorghe muresan

[whitey]

BTW, a few numbers i just went through, this are averages per season, for jerry rice i removed his stats and didnt count his 1997 season where he only played in 2 games, so this is through 12 season for moss, and 20 season for rice because i didnt count 1997, make of them what you will

RANDY MOSS AVERAGE SEASON
77 Receptions
1205 Yards
15.6 Yards Per Catch
12.3 Touchdowns

JERRY RICE AVERAGE SEASON
77 Receptions
1140 Yards
14.8 Yards Per Catch
9.8 Touchdowns

Let's take jerry's average for his first 12 seasons and compare those...

87.5 Receptions
1364.75 Yards
15.59 Yards per catch
12.83 TDs

better than moss. Now let's see moss play for another 8 seasons and see who has the better career numbers.

[whitey]

Randy Moss is better than Jerry Rice. Randy Moss the selfish me first guy. Randy Moss the guy who takes plays off on the regular. Randy Moss cant even hold Jerry Rice's jock strap. Get the fuck out of here with this bullshit and don't EVER let me see you speak such rubbish again.

[AMERICAN BONES]

Let's take jerry's average for his first 12 seasons and compare those...

87.5 Receptions
1364.75 Yards
15.59 Yards per catch
12.83 TDs

better than moss. Now let's see moss play for another 8 seasons and see who has the better career numbers.

fair enough, thats a better comparison youre right, i still think id take randy of his MIN years, where he was basically the only guy on the team with what we found out was a shit QB. Rice is great, and in terms of entire career and accomplishments hes the greatest right now, but i dont think he was the most talented

[California Giant]

Chris Carter?

[super hot]

Andre Reed needs to enter the HOF already. His time is due. He's waited long enough and was one of the better receivers of his era. His numbers are equivalent or better than Irvin minus the rings. But the HOF is based on individual performance not your teams.

[Tupac Shakira]

1) ryan doesnt know anything about baseball
2) AB is fucking destroying mns and ryan


thats all for now

Um, Ryan agreed with him, not me.

there is no such thing as clutch, there are people that fold under pressure and people that dont, the idea that someone is "clutch" and performs at a higher level than they are normally capable of is wrong, especially in football where its a game of instinct and reaction, the only position that has time to think about what they are doing to the point of the pressure MAYBE effecting their performance is a FG kicker, and even for them statistics prove there is no such thing as being "clutch"


Have you even played the game?

[AMERICAN BONES]

Have you even played the game?

for years, still play flag, whats your point? there is no such thing as clutch murilla, its a myth used by the sports media, there is zero scientific or statistical evidence to back it up

[Tupac Shakira]

fair enough, thats a better comparison youre right, i still think id take randy of his MIN years, where he was basically the only guy on the team with what we found out was a shit QB. Rice is great, and in terms of entire career and accomplishments hes the greatest right now, but i dont think he was the most talented

You sir, are an idiot.

[Tupac Shakira]

for years, still play flag, whats your point? there is no such thing as clutch murilla, its a myth used by the sports media, there is zero scientific or statistical evidence to back it up

okay but to say "the only position that has time to think about what they are doing to the point of the pressure MAYBE effecting their performance is a FG kicker" is just wrong.

[AMERICAN BONES]

okay but to say "the only position that has time to think about what they are doing to the point of the pressure MAYBE effecting their performance is a FG kicker" is just wrong.

once the ball is snapped everything is reflex and instinct, you have the plays so embedded in your mind you dont even think about them, you just do, i guess the same thing goes for kickers, but they arent really using instincts or reflexes, they are just going through the motions

this is a stupid argument, the point is there is no such thing as "clutch"

[AMERICAN BONES]

You sir, are an idiot.

whys that, tell me why saying randy moss is more talented than jerry rice makes me an idiot

[Tupac Shakira]

whys that, tell me why saying randy moss is more talented than jerry rice makes me an idiot

You are an idiot because Moss played with Chris Carter, and Rice played with John Taylor.

[AMERICAN BONES]

You are an idiot because Moss played with Chris Carter, and Rice played with John Taylor.

im an idiot and youre trying to say a WR playing besides cris carter on the tail end of his career is somehow comparable to a WR player with joe montana and steve young

[Tupac Shakira]

im an idiot and youre trying to say a WR playing besides cris carter on the tail end of his career is somehow comparable to a WR player with joe montana and steve young

AND Rich Gannon. But seriously, you're wrong.

[AMERICAN BONES]

AND Rich Gannon. But seriously, you're wrong.

lol, i already said i could be wrong, to say no one compares to rice in terms of skill is stupid, almost as stupid as using clutch in your argument and calling rice the most dominant athlete of all time

[whitey]

AB I think I disagree with just about everything you've said in this thread lol

[HOODS]

that article is so fucking pointless.

[___]

there is no such thing as clutch murilla, its a myth used by the sports media, there is zero scientific or statistical evidence to back it up

Ninja's right, you are an idiot. Some guys' hearts start racing and they spaz out when the game is on the line, see Favre for details. Some guys stay calm, cool and collected, see Elway for details.

[AMERICAN BONES]

Ninja's right, you are an idiot. Some guys' hearts start racing and they spaz out when the game is on the line, see Favre for details. Some guys stay calm, cool and collected, see Elway for details.

john elway, the guys who failed more than he succeeded in the big game, throwing 8INTs to only 3TDs in super bowls is clutch? why is that? even in the 2 super bowls hes won hes only threw 1TD and 2 INTs. But because of his two rings and "the drive"(which he layed an egg in the super bowl after) he somehow becomes "clutch"? john elway was a great QB that played on great teams, of course he was successful.

same with brett favre, who actually has as good or even better playoff numbers than elway, somehow you refer to as a choke artist, because he threw a couple picks. well were talking about brett favre, he throws alot of picks normally, of course hes going to throw more picks in big moments than guys that throw less picks. at the end of the day, no matter what the situation is, big or small, the numbers will even out

[AMERICAN BONES]

derek jeter is soooo clutch too right? he has a career BA of .315, yet with 2 outs and RISP he hits only .312! and omg in games that are late and close he only hits .294!!! holy cow his BA in the playoffs is only .313, lower than his career average!!!!!

but hey, its derek jeter, hes mr november! oh ya about that nick name, he earned that after hitting a walk off homer against the dbacks in game 4 of the 01 world series, a series the yankees actually lost and jeter had only 4 hits with a BA of .148 and 1RBI....CLUTCH

[___]

Jesus you're dense. I'm not talking entire games here, I'm talking when games are on the line. Some players just randomly have more come from behind victories? There aren't guys that you would rather have have the ball in their hands when the game is on the line? Yeah Favre had great stats in the NFC Championship game last year, then threw a pick when all they needed was 5 yards and a FG. Or, how about his last game as a Packer? Great game, but let's throw a pick at the end to lose it.

Would anyone know who the fuck Robert Horry is if it wasn't for big shots when it mattered? No such thing as clutch, I hope you're trolling.

[AMERICAN BONES]

Jesus you're dense. I'm not talking entire games here, I'm talking when games are on the line. Some players just randomly have more come from behind victories? There aren't guys that you would rather have have the ball in their hands when the game is on the line? Yeah Favre had great stats in the NFC Championship game last year, then threw a pick when all they needed was 5 yards and a FG. Or, how about his last game as a Packer? Great game, but let's throw a pick at the end to lose it.

Would anyone know who the fuck Robert Horry is if it wasn't for big shots when it mattered? No such thing as clutch, I hope you're trolling.

its fairly simple wig, there are thousands of articles and analysis on being "clutch" and almost all agree it doesnt exist

This article appears in the October 5 issue of ESPN The Magazine.



Patriots fans had no fear. Their team trailed Buffalo 24-13 with 5:32 left in the first Monday night game of 2009, but that was a minor obstacle to overcome. After all, Tom Brady was back behind center. And sure enough, Mr. Clutch led two touchdown drives down the stretch to win it 25-24, aided by an improbable kickoff fumble recovery. It was just the latest example of how Brady raises his game when it matters most.



Or does he? Patriots Nation might be surprised to learn that in 2007, Brady's passer rating was 8.3 points lower in the clutch (when the score was within seven points in the fourth quarter, or in overtime) than it was overall. In 2006 it was 21.8 points lower. In 2004 it was 27.4 points lower. This is not to say Brady is a choke artist; his passer rating was higher in the clutch in 2002, 2003 and 2005. It's just to say that over the long haul, Brady in the clutch is pretty much the same quarterback he is the rest of the time: really darn good.



Baseball analysts have generally dispelled the idea of the clutch hitter, a player who routinely raises his game in late and close situations. Now it's time to retire the myth of the clutch quarterback. We looked both at conventional NFL passer rating and our advanced metrics, and there was no year-to-year correlation in the difference between a quarterback's overall performance and his performance when the game was on the line. It apparently matters not that clutch situations in the NFL feature an element that baseball players don't have to worry about: clock management. Bad QBs overall, such as Kyle Orton, are bad in the clutch. Good QBs overall, such as Ben Roethlisberger, are good in the clutch. Same goes for backs and receivers.

[AMERICAN BONES]

as for horry, i guess you could say he is the exception to the rule, not the rule

[___]

What that article fails to think about is the fact that keeping your same stats when the pressure is on and everybody watching is clutch. Keeping the same composure, playing just like you practiced, while other guys have their heart rates rise 30 BPM and make mistakes is exactly what I'm saying.

[___]

as for horry, i guess you could say he is the exception to the rule, not the rule

Yet there is still 'no such thing' as clutch?

[AMERICAN BONES]

Yet there is still 'no such thing' as clutch?

right, its luck, horry was lucky, hes an average player that was lucky enough to be put in as many big situations as he was, and he was even luckier to come through as many times as he did. you truly believe that that robert horry became a BETTER player, his skills somehow magically increased like superman at the end of a game? thats absurd, it was random luck for robert horry, nothing more nothing less

[___]

lol. Okay.

[AMERICAN BONES]

What that article fails to think about is the fact that keeping your same stats when the pressure is on and everybody watching is clutch. Keeping the same composure, playing just like you practiced, while other guys have their heart rates rise 30 BPM and make mistakes is exactly what I'm saying.

so according to you, you are either clutch, or a choke artist? give me some examples of clutch guys, and give me some examples of choke artists

[AMERICAN BONES]

you truly believe that that robert horry became a BETTER player, his skills somehow magically increased like superman at the end of a game?

[___]

I'm not saying you're one or the other. I have given examples of both. I also said that playing the same as you would in practice pretty much is clutch. Staying at the same level when the pressure is on and everyone is watching is what clutch is.

Horry, a mediocre player, kept getting opportunities at the end of the game because he showed time after time that he was money . . . errrrr, I mean lucky.

[AMERICAN BONES]

I'm not saying you're one or the other. I have given examples of both. I also said that playing the same as you would in practice pretty much is clutch. Staying at the same level when the pressure is on and everyone is watching is what clutch is.

Horry, a mediocre player, kept getting opportunities at the end of the game because he showed time after time that he was money . . . errrrr, I mean lucky.

how is horry a mediocre player, but at the same time money? who is a choke artist according to you?

[___]

how is horry a mediocre player, but at the same time money?

You can't be this dumb.

who is a choke artist according to you?

Phil Mickelson comes to mind, but he has turned it around in recent years. As far as clutch, prime Tiger Woods is as good of a clutch guy as you can look at. According to you, by saying there is no such thing as choking or clutch, you are dismissing the fact that a big part of sports is mental.

[___]

Anyways, I'm done debating this. It's silly.

[AMERICAN BONES]

I'm not saying you're one or the other.

thats exactly what youre saying. your defination of a clutch performer is someone who doesnt choke, where is the middle ground?

[Shogun Marcus]

I think clutch is overused. Part of it is mental and part of it is catching a break. Obviously if you start to get anxious at the end of a game, you're going to get thrown off your concentration, and if you keep your cool all it does is keep the guy playing as well as he can. But catching that lucky break matters almost just as much. Hell, if you looked at Arod's numbers last post season, you'd think he was money every damn time the play offs came around.

[flashNsmash]

as for horry, i guess you could say he is the exception to the rule, not the rule

big shot bob all dae

[Tupac Shakira]

BTW, a few numbers i just went through, this are averages per season, for jerry rice i removed his stats and didnt count his 1997 season where he only played in 2 games, so this is through 12 season for moss, and 20 season for rice because i didnt count 1997, make of them what you will

RANDY MOSS AVERAGE SEASON
77 Receptions
1205 Yards
15.6 Yards Per Catch
12.3 Touchdowns

JERRY RICE AVERAGE SEASON
77 Receptions
1140 Yards
14.8 Yards Per Catch
9.8 Touchdowns

I'm with you on that, I think Randy Moss is better than Jerry Rice.

:pomlnut::pomlnut::pomlnut::pomlnut: